, what do you make of that this this is just a pandora's box, and the beginning. the fiscal cliff, could have a short-term impact, but ultimately the trend of higher taxes that charlie's point, is what businesses are really afraid of? >> i totally disagree with that and i think the surveys of businesses have shown that to be wrong and i talked to-- >> whoa, whoa, what survey. >> can i finish the point, charlie. >> you just said survey. >> we'll come back. >> i think that businesses are concerned mostly about whether consumers are going to spend or the not. that's the concern and i think as for the fiscal cliff, no, i don't think that's what it is and as for the fiscal cliff, anybody paying close attention, charlie, honestly we can have a much more intelligence conversation if you stop interrupting me. >> go ahead, finish. >> i think as for the fiscal cliff, i think that most people watching this close believe there will be a deal, why? because on taxes, i think even republicans agree they have to give somewhat right now and spending is, taxes are at 15% of gdp right now, it's the lowest